Some interesting points Patrick (I’ll check out the Pellicle article). In fairness to The Devonshire, it does the 2/3 pour and then top up, but there’s only so much you can do to maximise the quality of, as you say, a mass-produced product
Went to my local the other day and had a pint of Black Pig Porter (alright, I know porter and stout are different things technically, but they're not that far apart in broader terms) from the Wantsum Brewery near Canterbury in Kent. Glorious, bags of flavour, dark, smooth, chocolate, coffee, smoke, at 4.8%. Actually, it turned out to be three pints. Seemed rude not to.
Diageo may disagree with me on the science, but as someone who has poured many pints of nitro stout over the years I believe the ‘2/3 pour, wait and top up’ does increase the stability of the foam and the dome on the head due to the time allowed for the liquid to drain out of the foam matrix (essentially the foam dries out, leaving behind the foam positive substrates such as bitter alpha acids, malt proteins etc). This is evidenced in the ‘banked’ pints of the north east of England (great article on the Pellicle magazine website about the Tyneside/Hartlepool banking of pints) whereby a two-stage pour contributes to the structure of the head of foam.
I will say that having lived in England for a decade (having grown up in Ireland) the lack of knowledge, skill and hygiene in English pubs makes the quality of the otherwise inarguably consistent mass-produced product incomparably poor on average.
The Devonshire definitely overrated - not even the best in London, never mind the UK… and yes, the Guinness in Ireland is better, as a lifetime drinker and former beer educator and current wine buyer
So, Peter’s run with the gist of Dan’s article and added an interesting evaluation that’s really got me examining my own predilection for a pint of the black stuff. As an Englishman exiled in Northern Ireland, I’m more than happy to have Guinness as my go-to in a pub. Diageo have done a good job, admittedly from very solid ground, in getting the marketing mix right: the drink fits the national psyche and the ambience of an Irish bar, for there’s no such thing as a beer-garden, something I lament on the couple of fine days here each year; they have staff trained so that the base point is of a consistently good quality, and any deviation is fairly quickly rectified by the Diageo or by customers voting with their feet. And, then, the lack of any serious draft competition in terms of care and taste means that everyone’s used to the drinks order being more of a background to the main event, conversation and entertainment which form the main reasons to go out, rather than in England where I adore going to the pub to discover the varied and oft-changing delights of what’s on tap.
In Ireland, then, you’re just pretty much guaranteed to get a good quality Guinness which, whether it be through careful roasting and brewing, clinical upholding of standards or by mental association with many a good time had with a pint in hand, just keeps on delivering.
Forever trying to get my head around the Guinness fixation, which seems to have been created by an ages-old advertising campaign featuring toucans etc that has never gone away. As I understand it, Guinness is the best beer in the world and is good for you (although it turns your shit to treacle); no pubs in Britain are capable of washing their glasses or keeping clean lines from cellar to bar; all pubs in Ireland are run in exemplary fashion. The supremacy of the Irish pint is down to temperature (although the two-thirds-full glasses then sit on a bar at an uncontrolled temperature for an indeterminate time waiting to be topped up); to short lines from the cellar (although in a pub with a good turnover this is irrelevant); and to those clean glasses and the perfect pour.
I bet there isn't a scientist in the world who can explain the point of the 'perfect pour' (except as part of the mythology), although it does make for a shorter waiting time if the bar staff have got their heads screwed on, which I admit happens more often in Ireland.
I'm with Dan. Guinness in Ireland is a more enjoyable experience but it's still a massively over-rated mass-produced drink, with precious little flavour and an impressive look that comes from having gas pumped into it rather than from being perfectly cellared.
I've had far better stouts in Britain and Ireland, but they don't have a stonking advertising budget.
Some interesting points Patrick (I’ll check out the Pellicle article). In fairness to The Devonshire, it does the 2/3 pour and then top up, but there’s only so much you can do to maximise the quality of, as you say, a mass-produced product
Very forthright views Pete! Any stout recommendations?
Went to my local the other day and had a pint of Black Pig Porter (alright, I know porter and stout are different things technically, but they're not that far apart in broader terms) from the Wantsum Brewery near Canterbury in Kent. Glorious, bags of flavour, dark, smooth, chocolate, coffee, smoke, at 4.8%. Actually, it turned out to be three pints. Seemed rude not to.
Sounds nice - will seek it out
Diageo may disagree with me on the science, but as someone who has poured many pints of nitro stout over the years I believe the ‘2/3 pour, wait and top up’ does increase the stability of the foam and the dome on the head due to the time allowed for the liquid to drain out of the foam matrix (essentially the foam dries out, leaving behind the foam positive substrates such as bitter alpha acids, malt proteins etc). This is evidenced in the ‘banked’ pints of the north east of England (great article on the Pellicle magazine website about the Tyneside/Hartlepool banking of pints) whereby a two-stage pour contributes to the structure of the head of foam.
I will say that having lived in England for a decade (having grown up in Ireland) the lack of knowledge, skill and hygiene in English pubs makes the quality of the otherwise inarguably consistent mass-produced product incomparably poor on average.
The Devonshire definitely overrated - not even the best in London, never mind the UK… and yes, the Guinness in Ireland is better, as a lifetime drinker and former beer educator and current wine buyer
So, Peter’s run with the gist of Dan’s article and added an interesting evaluation that’s really got me examining my own predilection for a pint of the black stuff. As an Englishman exiled in Northern Ireland, I’m more than happy to have Guinness as my go-to in a pub. Diageo have done a good job, admittedly from very solid ground, in getting the marketing mix right: the drink fits the national psyche and the ambience of an Irish bar, for there’s no such thing as a beer-garden, something I lament on the couple of fine days here each year; they have staff trained so that the base point is of a consistently good quality, and any deviation is fairly quickly rectified by the Diageo or by customers voting with their feet. And, then, the lack of any serious draft competition in terms of care and taste means that everyone’s used to the drinks order being more of a background to the main event, conversation and entertainment which form the main reasons to go out, rather than in England where I adore going to the pub to discover the varied and oft-changing delights of what’s on tap.
In Ireland, then, you’re just pretty much guaranteed to get a good quality Guinness which, whether it be through careful roasting and brewing, clinical upholding of standards or by mental association with many a good time had with a pint in hand, just keeps on delivering.
Some interesting comments David - and I’m sorry you don’t have any beer gardens in Northern Ireland!
Forever trying to get my head around the Guinness fixation, which seems to have been created by an ages-old advertising campaign featuring toucans etc that has never gone away. As I understand it, Guinness is the best beer in the world and is good for you (although it turns your shit to treacle); no pubs in Britain are capable of washing their glasses or keeping clean lines from cellar to bar; all pubs in Ireland are run in exemplary fashion. The supremacy of the Irish pint is down to temperature (although the two-thirds-full glasses then sit on a bar at an uncontrolled temperature for an indeterminate time waiting to be topped up); to short lines from the cellar (although in a pub with a good turnover this is irrelevant); and to those clean glasses and the perfect pour.
I bet there isn't a scientist in the world who can explain the point of the 'perfect pour' (except as part of the mythology), although it does make for a shorter waiting time if the bar staff have got their heads screwed on, which I admit happens more often in Ireland.
I'm with Dan. Guinness in Ireland is a more enjoyable experience but it's still a massively over-rated mass-produced drink, with precious little flavour and an impressive look that comes from having gas pumped into it rather than from being perfectly cellared.
I've had far better stouts in Britain and Ireland, but they don't have a stonking advertising budget.
There, that's got that off my chest.